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This collection of mail to The Millenium Project covers correspondence received during 2005. My replies are in italics.
From: "genevieve searle"
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 02:13:17 +1100
I'm just wondering what happened to you to make you so vehemently self-righteous and anti-choice. Perhaps you need some psychological counselling to work through some of your issues. I have been struggling with the whole 'to vaccinate or not to vaccinate issue', it's a tough one. Interestingly however your site is pushing me in the 'not to vaccinate' direction, simply because it's so unreasonable and highly sensationalist. Thank god there are other information sources because you're not doing yourself or the pro-vaccination team any favours.
From: "genevieve searle"
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 02:10:30 +1100
I notice you haven't updated your mail receipts, please do so it's very entertaining. You seem to be very defensive, to the point of being aggressive. Are you ok? would you like some counselling hotline numbers? My mum is a psychologist I'm sure she'd be happy to talk to you. You do believe that psychology is a worthy profession don't you? I'm sure you do.
I was also just wondering if you could tell me the recommended dose of the following substances, to inject directly into your infants blood stream; Mercury, Formaldehyde, aluminium compounds, carbolic acid, ant killer, methanol, acetone, disinfectant, glycerine, antifreeze, MSG, contaminant animal viruses (e.g. SV40), animal organ tissue, aborted human foetus cells, mutated human viruses, latex, GM yeast and my favourite animal, bacterial and viral DNA.
Thank you I'll be awaiting your response.
Dear Ms Searle
I am sorry that you were disappointed by my not-so-immediate response, but I do not update my web site to your schedule. If you are so desperate to see your name on a screen, you should start a blog where you can update the pages whenever you feel like it. Alternatively, if you want me to work for you I invite you to apply your awesome research skills to locating my business web site, where you can find a form to fill out (including your credit card number) in order to purchase my time.
Of course I think that psychology is a "worthy profession". I would not have studied it for so long at university if I didn't think so. My area of study was the way that people can come to absurd conclusions by employing premises which are obviously wrong (in some cases ridiculously wrong). An example would be for someone to reject vaccination because they believed that vaccines contain the cells of aborted foetuses. As there is no possibility of the premise being correct, any conclusion drawn from it must be flawed. Oh, sorry, I just noticed ...
Some people would be surprised at how you descended from cautious mother looking for answers to full-blown anti-vaccination liar in only two days, but I have been observing the species for long enough that I have come to expect this sort of thing. Being disingenuous, which is pretending to be looking for information when you think you already know the answer, is a form of deceit, but I am sure you are aware of that.
By the way, you left one very important item out of the list of things which are not in vaccines. You forgot the monkey pus. You should never forget the monkey pus. No list of lies about vaccine components is complete without it. Because of this omission I can only award you a B- for your effort. Please try harder next time.
Subject: Your web site
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:47:43 -0800
Your site does more to help the anti vaccine movement than to stop it!
Your questions asked to the anti vaccine people were answered with sound logical answers, but you look like an idiot.
They were answered with the combination of arrogance, bigotry, ignorance and delusion that I have come to expect from anti-vaccination liars. What are your answers to the questions? To make it easy for you, here they are:
1. Of the vaccines in the current schedule, which ones do you believe can safely be given to children?
2. Of the vaccines in the current schedule, which ones do you believe provide protection against disease?
3. If a new vaccine could be produced tomorrow against a fatal or disabling disease, which disease would you like it to prevent?
4. Do you believe that the benefits of any vaccine currently in use outweigh the risks associated with it?
5. What would it take to convince you that the benefits of a vaccine outweigh the risks?
6. I have been told that homeopathy can be used to "reverse vaccine damage". As homeopathy is essentially distilled water, how can this work?
7. AIDS kills millions of people each year, but so far no vaccine has been developed. Do you believe that research into an AIDS vaccine should continue?
8. I have read about a man called Alan Yurko who is in prison in Florida for murdering a child. The evidence against him looks convincing and he has a criminal record for violent crimes. People are saying that the baby died from vaccine damage, not from being shaken. Do you think Alan Yurko is innocent? Why do you think this?
(Yes, I know that Yurko is no longer in Florida and is now in prison in Ohio, but I wanted to leave the questions the same. The fact of the baby's death has not changed.)
9. Dr Andrew Wakefield looked at a small number of autistic children whose parents believed that they had been made autistic by vaccination and found what he believes is a connection between MMR and autism. Very large studies examining the records of millions of children do not suggest any connection other than a coincidence of timing. Could Dr Wakefield be wrong?
10. Of all the vaccines currently given to children, which do you think has saved the most lives?
I have researched vaccines for the last 25 years and vaccines represent an assault on the human immune system...need to be stopped. The American Physicians Association called for a halt on all vaccines in 2000.
I assume that would be the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. Of course AAPS would say that, as Dr Jane Orient is one of the most high-profile anti-vaccination liars. I know that she says that she is in favour of vaccines, but that is only as long as those vaccines are not given to anybody of any age at any time against any disease. If you want to impress me you will have to come up with a real medical association which opposes vaccination, not a pack of loons led by a woman whose grasp of arithmetic and reality is so tenuous that she once told me that an occurrence rate of three in ten thousand is thirty times a rate of one in five thousand.
Apparently, you are fully vaccinated and not thinking sane!
Are you suggesting that vaccination causes insanity? I have never heard that before, but I am not surprised.
You do not show one stitch of proof that these lethal shots are safe or effective.
There is plenty of evidence for safety and you only have to look around at the live children to see that they are effective. I realise that your prejudices prevent you from seeing the truth, but that doesn't stop the truth from existing. Your use of idiotic terms like "lethal shots" just illustrates how out of touch with reality you are.
Your just trying to blast those who think differently than you and you look like a fool.
I have no problem with people who think differently from me. Unless of course that difference leads them to try to talk parents out of caring for their children. When the difference can lead to the deaths of not a few but millions of children then, like all sane people, I have both the right and the duty to "blast" them.
Keep up the good work!!!
Thank you. I intend to do so until the last anti-vaccination liar is poisoned by the last laetrile salesman.
P.S. Those kids with chicken pox look happy and are much healthier now...Congratulations to the parents.
And you know this how? I didn't identify the children on my site, so for all you know they might all be dead by now. This is quite possible, as the parents you congratulate might have been just as pleased if the children caught pertussis, diphtheria or meningococcal disease.
VACCINE RESEARCHER AND LECTURER Helping Parents make fully informed vaccine decisions. MaryTocco Director of Vaccine Research and Education for Michigan Opposing Mandatory Vaccines President of The Autism AutoImmunity Project of Michigan
If autism is an autoimmune disease, how is it caused by vaccinations? If vaccinations wreck the immune system, how can it come back strong enough to attack the body itself? Is autism caused by mercury, as claimed by Professor Boyd Haley, by measles virus entering the gut as claimed by Dr Andrew Wakefield, or by pasteurised milk as stated on Dr Joseph Mercola's web site?
Oh, now I get it. You make your living telling lies about vaccination. How much do you charge to lie to a roomful of parents? Is it a good living?
I especially liked the way that you have declared yourself a "World Class Person". That takes real class to do something like that. The million-plus visitors is also a nice touch, but I can forgive you for that as the truth is not expected from you.
As is my normal policy, your email and my reply will be published on my web site.
From: "MARJORIE HILL"
Subject: TOUCH NOT MINE ANNOINTED
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:05:46 -0600
you must be a pharisee that they talk about in the BIBLE i hope you get saved before you meet your maker because your not suppose to touch GOD'S anointed i would hate to be in your shoes for your socks vengance is mine saith the lord and GOD SHALL REPAY
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:22:35 +1100
Subject: Your comments on Hillsong
I just had to email you about your comments about Hillsong.
1. the "church" has just donated $AU106,000 to help World Vision feed people in Sudan. This represents 0.3% of the "church's" admitted yearly tax-free income - this does not counter that it is a good thing as that is one of the donations of the church. Another is $400k raised for Tsunami recently. The activities of the churches foundation itself is a charity (for example helping who have been sexually abused) so they do not have to justify all donations by giving it all away as some if for the activities of the foundation itself.
$506,000 out of an income of $30 million! I am impressed. What specially impresses me is that this is more than 75% of what the church paid to buy an apartment for Bobbie Houston at Bondi. I assume the church paid for it, because as we all know Bobbie has no income because she donates her salary to the church.
in any case you are wrong about it being tax deductible ... donations for the running of the Church are not tax deductible only donations to the foundation are.
I never said anything about tax deductibility of donations to the church. I said that the income of the church was not subject to tax. This is a different matter altogether.
2. your comment about being hosted in New Jersey --- so what? does it really matter? They probably host it there because australian hosting is very expensive.
I agree. If I had an annual tax-free income of only $30 million I couldn't afford about $400 a year either. Of course, if I felt the need to get around Australia's laws on international money transfers it would be handy to have someone in the US who could issue invoices to me.
3. Your other comments show that you have not investigated the issues properly
By my "other comments" I assume you mean my comments about Peter Costello appearing at a fundraiser and Hillsong representatives deceptively using the name of a genuine charity to attract people to one of those fundraisers. What is there to investigate? Costello was there, Amnesty were not.
In any case a more important question is why you feel the need to attack the church (ask ask for donations for doing so ... on the bottom of your page)
I don't like scams of any kind. Getting money from people by pretending to be some sort of church and spending the money on lavish lifestyles is no different from any other sort of financial fraud, except that it is legal.
If you met the founders of the church you would realize that their purpose is 100% to make the world a better place, and attacking them whilst it might give you some gratification ... are you making a contribution by doing so?
It would be enormously gratifying to me and I would definitely have made a contribution if I could encourage just one person to worship God in a real church instead of a farce like Hillsong.
You are attacking quackery and unscientific medicine on your website and I can see some advantages in that, but isn't it unscientific quackery to attack a church without really knowing what you are talking about.
Fax me a copy of the church's accounts.
And one other thing quickly on the point of money ... you can't help the poor by being poor ... I am wealthy and that gives me the ability to give away a lot of money and make a difference with that money. The same is true of the Church. They wouldn't be able to do anything without money.
Excellent! Any day now I expect to see Gloria Jean's coffee shops providing free meals and coffee to indigent people. The homeless people in the Bondi area will also appreciate being able to shelter themselves in Bobbie's $650,000 shack.
Now, what was it that Jesus said about wealth and rich people ...?
From: "Lisa Boicos"
Subject: MISERABLE SOUL!!!!
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:56:47 +1100
YOU POOR, BITTER, TWISTED SOUL! I KNOW IT MUST BE VERY HARD WATCHING OTHER PEOPLE MAKE THE MOST OF THEIR LIVES AND LIVING A LIFE YOU ONLY WISHED FOR IN YOUR WILDEST DREAMS! YOU SAY YOU HAVE NEVER EVEN ATTEMPTED A MLM BUSINESS, WELL WHY DOES THAT NOT SURPRISE ME YOU IGNORANT FOOL, WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF???? LOOKS LIKE YOU ONLY FEAR YOURSELF AND LIFE ITSELF FOR EVEN WASTING YOUR PRECSIOUS TIME IN PUTTING TOGETHER SUCH A COMMICAL WEBSITE! OH WELL, ENOUGH TIME WASTED ON SUCH IGNORANCE! I HAVE TO GO SHOPPING AND HAVE LUNCH WITH MY MLM BIZ. FRIENDS NOW WHILE YOU AND 95% OF THE SOCIETY ARE TOO BUSY WORKING!
AS THEY SAY "IGNORANT PEOPLE ALWAYS HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY, BUT THEY NEVER HAVE A SOLUTION?!!!! TRY AND HAVE A GOOD DAY, YOU MESIREBLE SOUL!
Thank you for your kind thoughts. I am sorry to hear that the only friends who will go to lunch with you are from the "MLM BIZ", but that's the way things go when you join these organisations. The question is, however, how many will still be your friends after you leave the business.
Which "MLM BIZ" are you in?
By the way, you don't have to type everything in capital letters. As the saying goes: "Want to lose CAPS? Ask me how".
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 01:42:13 +1100
I said WOW
I have just evolved a third eye - Oh and I was so fooled into believing that God/Jesus made me from dust ?
Ah ,but what shall I do if my friends see me - they might place me under the microscope or open up Baileys circus again.
Oh well ,I suppose all those Africans and Javanese really are well ahead of us poor, newer version caucasions seeing they evidently came 1st.
And I suppose I will have to leave Cheetah the Chimp in charge of the house while I am away - for photo shoots with National Geographic - he will manage won't he ?
Hold on - what's this stub on my hand ?
Must be another typing finger my evolutionary processes created while I was "Asleep"
Look out 60 words a minute here I come.
bye lesser man
Subject: pyramid schemes
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:39:42 -0500
I wish there were a better way to say this, but you, my friend, are an idiot!
Thank you. It always useful to start off with a compliment.
Everything is a Pyramid! From your govt. system in Australia, to any corporation. Every corporation has a CEO and then some VPs, some SR management, middle managers, supervvisors, and grunts. Our govt. has a President, the VP and Secretary of State, Representatives, Senators, etc. People have been sooooo brain washed into thinking that Pyramids are inherently evil. I think the Egyptians built some great ones!
You need to speak to your upline about this, but please try to be polite and not appear negative. The comparison between pyramid marketing schemes and hierarchical organisations is very fatuous and very old. I am surprised that this tired old pack of nonsense is still being used, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised as the perpetuation of MLM frauds relies on a continuous stream of new prospects who think that they are the first people to hear the story.
I know you say you've never been in a pyramid system or MLM of any sort, but after reading many of your other lies how am I supposed to believe you on this?
What are those "other lies". Please be specific. Simply making baseless accusations is a form of negative thinking.
Either you're jealous because you didn't think of the idea first, you've failed miserably at a few "pyramid systems, or you're just plain stupid. I'm not sure which it is.
Try "None of the above". I didn't think of selling heroin to school children first either, and I could have made a lot more money doing that.
I couldn't believe some of the ill-informed, ignorant statements that were made on your web page. You've got too much time on your hands and not enough knowledge.
Enlighten me. Please do not regurgitate all those old, recycled things that filter down from the crooks at the top to the poor, misnamed "Independent Business Owners" (who are none of independent, business operators or owners of anything). I want to hear specific statements of where I am wrong. Back up your statements with citations and facts. Do not tell me about people who know people who know people who made a lot of money.
From: "Calvin Smith"
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 11:18:47 -0600
You are the pathetic one. Do you not have a life? Grow up. You are a total waste of time and space. I've wasted more time than you're worth. Be gone!
Thank you for your comments. It would be useful, however, if I knew what you were talking about. Do you have a particular problem, or is it general?
From: "Debbie Griffith"
Subject: bad taste in your mouth
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 22:57:07 +1100
ow you seem to have a very bad taste in your mouth or your just jealous that there people out there making money and quite a bit of it how can you give information like that and you oviously have no idea of the business and how it works
Which particular MLM scam has worked for you? Have you given up your day job yet? Now you have reached a high status in the business, do you have enormous amounts of spare time to spend your many tens of thousands of residual income dollars?
I didn't think so.
From: "Debbie Griffith"
Subject: Re: bad taste in your mouth
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:45:33 +1100
even if I haven't made a cent what's the harm in trying and if it works great and if it doesn't well at least we had a go and will not look back and wonder. its like negative people like yourself that have no balls and get up and go and lie in self pity and whinge and carry on when people do succeed and wish it was you get a life I bet you want put this e-mail on your site because your mr negative looser
I assume that you meant "won't" in that last sentence. You lost the bet.
From: "Pat Kohl"
Subject: The Scam is This Site
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:04:22 -0800
I am absolutely appalled at the gall of your categorizing all MLM as scams. Yes there are scams in the industry, just as there are thieves in any area. . .also in websites.
Claims of millions being made quick are obviously wrong and misleading. However, there is empowerment and and better health available to thousands of people who have chosen to be self reliant by joining a company that produces legitimate products for sale. Word of mouth is the most powerful form of advertising. Why should you label people as scam artists for participating in a basic concept of referral marketing? Each person can do research to make sure a company produces products of value and each person can understand that it takes hard work and effort to build a business.
I am sure there must be more wrong in the world you could go after. How about the pharmaceutical companies that make billions while people get more and more symptoms of ill health?
What is your background?
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 08:46:18 -0800
Subject: Re- comments about Mannatech Scam
Recently I read your page on https://ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/mannatech.htm
And would like to add a bit more to help you out.
You have been misinformed about Mannatech. The reason why they sell their products the way they do is because of current FDA regulations. FDA regulations say that if you actually have a herbal medicine which can treat a current aliment, it must be considered a drug and therefore registered by the FDA. There is one simple problem however, these are simple sugars which we all put in our diet and are not drugs.
So you admit that they do not treat any ailment. What are they for, then? (Other than to make money for the sellers, of course.)
I'm not going to debate this with you, but education is the key to ignorance. In fact, I'm not even a Mannatech affiliate, just someone who knows enough about how corrupt the government of the United Stated actually is. I still personally use Mannatech products which have help subside migrane headaches as well as severe allergies...
If they are simple sugars which do not treat any ailment, how can they treat migraine and allergies? I suffer from both, and I would definitely call them "ailments".
Simple sugars and whole foods can help curb these problems in our society today as well.
These sugars are so simple that your body can make them from the components of your food, But as they don't treat any ailments but instead only "curb ... problems" I suppose taking them is harmless. Except to your wallet.
Just my two cents...
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 11:25:28 -0600
From: "Robinson, Christina"
So are you saying anything that has to do with nutritional supplements is a scam?
No. I am saying that multi-level marketing is a scam. The fact that Mannatech products are useless and have no nutritional value is icing on the cake.
You seem to believe we can stay perfectly healthy with diet and exercise. Just what diet would that be? Have you come up with the perfect balance of nutrition. I would be very interested in this. Please also prove this theory to me.
Which theory would that be? That people can get a balanced diet and enough exercise if they set out to do these things? That hardly needs proving - it is what in mathematics is called "an axiom".
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:26:08 +1000
From: "Mars Browne and Don Wilson"
No minimum purchase of everyday products that you WANT to purchase Use whatever service you benefit from....phone , credit card , mortgage, insurance, mobile phone, health insurance
with at least 12 business builders plus 1500 global points you get $2000 per month guaranteed
for 10-15 hour work per week
Tell me please if there is something better out there??? I am waiting for your reply
$2000 was achieved by us within 7 months
Congratulations! Someone has to win.
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:25:40 +1000
From: "Mars Browne and Don Wilson"
Subject: Re: Omegatrend
Its called "don't give up"
But really you would have to be stupid not to do it. OT leads the pack, why give all your hard earned money to the big corporations??
And whats really stupid is that you do it all your life and you think nothing of it go figure
Omegatrend went belly-up in May 2006, leaving distributors stranded and suppliers whistling for the $2 million they were owed.
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 00:46:35 +1000
When I was a child, my grandmother once said to me , " EMPTY VESSEL , make the most noise". Boy! Never a truer word was spoken. After reading you OPINIONS and VIEWING your site, it's speaks LOUD and clear to me..lol.. I hope you have a very nice day...............................Kelvin
Do you have an objection to any particular opinion of mine, or is it all so overwhelming that you have to make generalisations?
From: "Daniel W"
Subject: Hillsong Article
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:28:21 +1000
I think your article is such a biased piece of opinion from a over analysing man. I mean my church is doing so much for the community we have Teen Challenge(for boys) and Mercy(for girls) which gives men and women with life controlling issues such as drug addictions a chance to start over with free accomodation, food and counselling. It also gives them recreational opportunites also and helps them to find jobs.We also help them by rebuilding key foundations in vital areas such as self image,peer pressure,family living, work ethic and community relationships. WE as a church are also sponsering 2,444 with another 66 sponserships about to commence. We also gave $500,000 to help the Tsunami effort and also gave 10,000 units of antibiotics to the countries effected.We gave $106,000 to World Vision for work in Sudan.We also have street teams who mow,paint,clean,garden and do other such activites for the poor,underpriveleged and the edlerly.Through Hillsong emerge centres we as a church are helping people in Blacktown and Redfern through aged care services,mentoring and drug and alcohol services. SO I do not see how you could say that we are not doing much for the community and the world abroad.And also the Pastors Brian and Bobbie sponser 7 children through compassion. They do not have to do this there is no obligation to do so but they do it. Also it outlines in the Old and New Testament of the bible tithing. So open your bible and find these scriptures...
Leviticus 27:30 "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD."
Malachi 3:8 "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation."
In verse 10 of Malachi 3, you will notice that it states "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."
1: As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury.
2: He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins.
3: "I tell you the truth," he said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others.
4: All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on."
15: Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words.
16: They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are.
17: Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"
18: But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
19: Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius,
20: and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"
21: "Caesar's," they replied. Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."
22: When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.
I hope thats enough proof for you.Also we are called Hillsong Church not just Hillsong as we are a Church.In your article you said "What really frightened her, though, was being in a room full of thousands of people who could be encouraged to simultaneously salute Pastor Brian by raising their arms to a 45š angle." We never salute Brian (a misconception on your behalf as you got second hand information) we are actually worshipping God-honouring him. Also just have to say this view on our Church is getting boring...way overdone. You also said that "She asked once about pastoral services like having a quiet place to come during the week for reflection and contemplation and the availability of someone who could offer some counselling if she had problems. The person she asked looked at her in bewilderment, unable to comprehend why anyone would expect a "church" to do these things and do them without payment." We do offer free counselling(again you got second hand information) and could it have been possible that the person she asked did not know we had free counselling? You also said that "Churches are places where you sing, pay, pray, pay, sing, pay, salute, sing, pray and pay." This is not true as we only tithe once in the service. Also I do not see the big problem with tithing I mean most other churches tithe as well and some youth groups at churches require you to pay to get in.My Church does not require youth to pay to get in. I do not see anything wrong with this either, I am not having a go at other Churches either as they are great Anglican Churches. I mean have you even been to our Church or was this article just written on "hear say" and "rumours" like many others?I see no evidence you have been to our Church. I would be glad to bring you sometime. You also said "Strangely, there is one thing that Hillsong and Amnesty have in common - they are both evidence of the non-existence of God. If there really was an omniscient, omnipotent and just God then there would be no need for an organisation like Amnesty, because such a god would not allow the suffering, injustices and atrocities which the organisation exists to fight. Similarly, if there really was an omniscient, omnipotent and just God it is hard to imagine why He would tolerate a pretend church which defiles His name by its worship of wealth." Could it be that you don't believe in God so much that you hate my Church because you see the good things our Church is doing but because it is a place to honour God you hate it? And could it be that God likes our Church(as we seek to serve and bring honour and glory to His name while helping the poor etc) and that is why he tolerates our Church?
I will wait for your reply as I enjoy reading your opinions even if they are not as I believe.
Daniel really wanted a reply:
From: "Daniel W"
Subject: I sent you an email earlier in the year
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:09:58 +1000
Hi, I sent you an email earlier in the year and you didn't bother putting it on your website so could you do so? or do you only put on the ones that you want?
I usually post emails to my site, although I don't necessarily do it immediately they come in. In this case I put it aside for some reason. It is on the site now.
I would like to comment on some things you said. Firstly, I would like to thank you for saying that you enjoy reading my opinions even though you don't necessarily agree with them. It would be a dull place if everyone agreed with everyone else, but I have found some people who profess to Christianity yet would like to silence any conflicting opinions.
Secondly, I agree that the correct name for the business generally referred to as "Hillsong" is Hillsong Church Ltd, an Australian public company limited by guarantee. When you are next speaking to any of the directors of this company you might like to clear up something which is puzzling me. Why did the company formerly named "Sydney Christian Life Centre Limited" change its name to "Hillsong Church Ltd" on the same day that "Hillsong Church Limited" changed its name to "Hillsong Christian Life Centre Ltd". You might also ask them what Hillsong Emerge Ltd does and why separate incorporations are required for Hillsong Church Incorporated and Hillsong Youth Services Incorporated. I can guess what Hillsong Media & Performing Arts Incorporated does.
Third, as you seem familiar with the financial affairs of the various Hillsong entities, please fax me a copy of the accounts. As there seems to be quite a network of incorporated bodies and legal entities at the same address, if possible I would like separate profit and loss statements and balance sheets for each body as well as consolidated accounts. (I know that some of these documents have different names because of the different legal status of companies versus non-profit bodies, but the principles still apply.)
Lastly, the verses you quoted from Matthew 22 show Jesus giving explicit instructions that people should pay taxes. Is Hillsong Church Ltd planning on paying any corporate income taxes in the immediate future?
From: "Noel & Jeanie Bradtke"
Subject: True to Label
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:40:50 +0930
You really are 'True to Label'. Your site is so full of crap that it does not deserve a second look. It would be prudent review matters eg. put mind into gear before shooting off at the mouth. You come over as one that is unlikely to be taken seriously by anyone with any intelligence. I actually feel sorry that anyone would gain any sense of accomplishment by publishing the crap you do on your web site. Have a nice day. :-)
Thank you for your comments. Do you have any particular problem, or is it all too much for you to handle?
Noel & Jennie wrote back:
From: "Noel & Jeanie Bradtke"
Subject: Does this make sense to you
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 20:09:37 +0930
With a name like Proctologist and website links like "rsoles" what are people to think? The "Information" you have on your website is mostly is inaccurate or misleading. It (the website) may have, at one stage, been well meaning.
I make an observation:- It is highly unlikely with the varied topics you cover, that you will get it right. It takes weeks or months to research editorials, such as the ones that appear on your site, in order to make accurate and sensible comments.
It is unfortunate that, perhaps, your opinion blinds you. Either you do not know of, Or choose to ignore the plethora of scientific evidence, available on the Web, that would show a need to reconsider some of your ideas.
You may wonder what damage an unproven opinion/theory can have when it is considered fact. Take a look at history. What was the link between the following Men who murdered innocent people in their millions? What exactly was it that led Leon Trotsky, Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler and Pol Pot to kill innocent people in their millions? And YES these men are linked by one unprovable theory!
Does this make sense to you?
Are you really trying to help people? Or are you just voicing your opinion?
You can choose to change!
Someone was upset at things I said about a multi-level marketing scheme.
From: "CULTURE=en-US ANON=A=9C77816715C28F1F82F4389DFFFFFFFF&E=26e&W=9"
Subject: Hello Peter
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:22:22 +0000
Hello anonymous coward,
[XYZ] is doing phenomenally well with or without your whimsical claims. You are fighting a losing battle with yourself. You claim that 20,000 people visit your site every week, you could be right, 20,000 pissed off people. Don't you think the company would have closed down by now if your claims were right in any way? [XYZ]'s growth is explosive mate, and all you do is whine like a llittle baby.
I realise that reading is probably not your strong point, but the number was not 20,000. And I am sure that the company is explosive. They certainly went boom in Finland, didn't they. Gone in a puff of smoke.
If you fail to take action and comply with the law suit you will surely be facing heavy fines, loss of business and loss of credibilty (not that you have any anyway) and shutting down of your malicious site. You are like the Hitler of the internet, one who believes they are right and just but really very wrong and derranged in the eyes of the world. And it is obviouus you are going down the same lonely path.
Does mummy know that you are using the computer? I comply fully with the law, unlike the company in question, who were recently found to be running an illegal pyramid scheme. People have been trying to shut my site down for many years. You can have a look at my Vacuous Legal Threats page to see how successful they have been. In fact, you can look at the continued existence of the site. (Sorry about all the big words.)
I read the threat you wrote back to the lawyers, go on and dig your grave deeper. My suggestion is to do nothing. Keep on slandering and hammering away. Attack the company and its people, what goes around comes around... Karma
Ask mummy to tell you the meaning of "slander".
I bet you don't put this part of my e-mail up on your site,
You lost the bet.
how would you like 20,000 people calling you every week? Hey mates anyone looking to reach Peter Bowditch, his direct TELEPHONE NUMBER AT HOME is (+61) 2-99999999 in South Wales or AT WORK (+61)2-99999999. His business/office is his home, drove by there the other day to check it out
Anyone who was likely to drive past my home would know the name of the state I live in.
yours sincerely V.Vendette
I love anonymous cretins. Too cowardly to use a real name, but brave enough to whine.
[The message was emailed from IP address 220.127.116.11, which belongs to Comcast and is in Baltimore, Maryland. It was a very long, wet drive for the moron to come and look at my house.]
From: "Bobbi Ashworth"
Subject: A letter from a reader.
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:34:49 -0700
I read over your Christine Coleback story, shown to me by my friend good friend Vincent. And I'd like to please ask you a favor.
Do not feel any negativity torwards Mrs. Colebeck for what has gone on. I do not know her well enough to tell you why she went on to get vaccinations for her son after what happened to her daughter Laura, but I do know that the chances of her doing it just for money are minimal.
I never said that she had her son vaccinated for money. I said that she was using her son's Aspergers Syndrome to get money. She is also using it to gain publicity for her anti-vaccine campaign, just as she is exploiting her daughter's death for the same purpose.
And that information from her 'sister' (I'm not sure it's her sister), she mentions her 'six' children, all from different fathers, which is extremely incorrect. I will not say how many, since it is not my place to tell, but there are less than six children, and the different father thing is not true.
I have modified my comments about the "sister's" email. The only reason I published it in the first place is that I couldn't work out why anyone would say such things when there were far more effective ways of revealing Ms Colebeck's dishonesty, such as pointing to the obvious lies she tells about the paediatrician's response to the SIDS death of the daughter.
I hope you realize the point of this letter is only to ask you to please think of Christine in a positive way.
I'm sorry, but it is impossible to think anything positive about someone who lies about the circumstances surrounding their daughter's death in order to advance an anti-vaccine agenda.
She was only doing what she thought was best for someone, possibly just herself, but you have to admit that is better than complete apathy.
One of the outstanding characteristics of the anti-vaccine campaigners is the absolute selfishness they display, where no children other than their own matter. I would prefer apathy to an active support of an ideology which, if successful, can only result in the death or disability of an enormous number of children.
I know she is a nice woman for a fact, as is the rest of her family. Especially her oldest son.
With all due respect,
[You can see the context for this email here.]
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:28:28 -0700
From: Swati Fernando
Subject: check your facts
Your web site is an interesting one. And for the most part, I agree wih many of the things that you say. But you need to be informed that Alticor does not only sell products that Access Business Group manufactures, but they are partnered up with over 110 companies to provide the consumer choices when purchasing for their needs and wants. So, when you say that they only sell Amway products, I do not know about the system of Network 21 or the others out there, I do know that Quixtar is the portal where I can get any brand name product of my choice. And in return for loyalty of buying through their site, I am rewraded a number of ways. Either through points, through volume discounts, or through commission cheques. Costco charges a yearly membership to be ablel to buy through them. So do many tother companies. This is a useful way to "entangle" customers witht he company and the company rewards them with benefits. In this case, with Quixtar, it is money.
On one more note, the fellow at the bottom is able to make more money than the sponsor or even higher up. It all depends on volume and produciton. If the sponsor is unable to meet certain growth targets, and his down line are exeeding his/her performance, then the downline will make greater sums of money. There is even a point where if the down line acheive a certain growth target, they are removed from their sponsor and operate directly with Quixtar. This is what fundamentally violates the very structure of a pyramid.
In case, you were not aware, pyramid schemes are illegal in all first world nations. The system that Quixtar has is place if neither MLM nor is it a pyramid. If I want a Sony TV I can get it! I think that you spin more baseless fear than what actually is the case. I have read the documents of the Congressional hearings to see in indeed Quixtar is violating US law and the transcripts tell us that it is a viable and acceptable business to operate in both Canada and the USA.
From: "Heather Curell"
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:29:34 -0400
You should stick to the "asses" you are specialized in. Also pull your head out of yours.
What is your problem with donkeys? They are fine and useful animals.
Do you have a specific complaint, or is it all too much for you to comprehend?
From: "Heather Curell"
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:38:53 -0400
I can guess that not only do you not have faith in an almighty God, you don't have faith in much else except your own LIMITED understanding of how the world works. There are many things unseen that cannot be explained. If you are married; let me ask you to prove that your wife loves you. You can't see it or touch love, but you do know that it is there and that it works. Although you may have a limited understanding of how muscle testing works - does not mean that it doesn't. It simply means you don't understand it. This is a choice. You have chosen to be closed minded. You have plotted yourself against something and chosen to take sides creating a win/lose situation for yourself. You win if you gain people to your thought process and you lose if you don't. At least by being neutral people have the freedom to choose their own beliefs so you would gain more patients/clients in the long run thus creating a win/win situation: you are only hurting and limiting yourself. I know I would never see a physician who is so closed minded. I may be guessing again, but I will assume you have also never had a kinesiology (muscle testing) treatment done. I bet you also run to the allopathic doctor for "drugs" each time you are ill. Keep poisening your body. There has never been a drug that cures. They simply supress symptoms. Health is not drugging ourselves so there is no symptoms showing; it is healing the symptoms "curing" not "covering". It seems like the poisens are affecting your ability to judge correctly. And why exactly have you made a personal mission to steer people away from natural things? Fear? It is amazing what fear controls. Intellect for sure. So no I guess I don't have a specific complaint but again I will guess by your defensiveness you are questioned often. I have no issues with donkeys. However the "asses" I was referring to are the ones you look at daily - being a proctologist and all (or so says your site) - proving once again your limited understanding of the truth and your uncanny abililty to twist the issue at hand (are you sure your not an attorney?) It is definetly not too much for me to understand. I am a practicing naturopath. Generally speaking, the allopathic medical community are the ones running down natural therapies - not the other way around - limited understanding or fear again (fear of the unknown or fear of light being shed on the limited scope of practice of medical doctors). Why is it that medical doctors feel the need to run a monopoly on health care? Are they afraid of competition? Let me ask you another question that "hypocratic oath" that you all take "First do no harm" exactly when does this come into play? Surgery - cutting the body or drugs -poisening it? Abortions? What exactly is the medical communities definition of harm? I am truly confused. Or once again, do you not even keep your word with oaths you have taken? Anything for the almighlty dollar? Is it beyond your understanding to say what you mean and mean what you say? Or are you running in circles because you can't actually cure? Or do you even care at all? You have been lied to by thinking you are such a big person. Look at a world map and mark your space. That may bring into perspective how small you are. You will get further in life and gain wisdom by acknowledging your own limitations. Is it the insurance money and patients co-pays that matter to you? Live and let live. If you don't believe in it - fine that is your choice. But don't be ignorant by thinking you will change peoples opinions - you are simply showing your own ignorance, limited understanding and moreover issues with control. By the way, I found you online due to the fact that I am looking to purchase the exact book you have been running down "Reflex anaylsis and clinical nutrition" by Versendaal. I assume by now you have finished picking out the negative from the book and won't be using it as reference material. Are you interested in selling it?
As the Gettysburg Address contains only 278 words and therefore sets a plausible upper limit on the expression of a single thought, I try not to read any paragraph containing more than 300 words. The paragraph above has 722 words.
Subject: Your opinion
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:39:26 +1000
I was quite surprised to read what you have written on your website.
On behalf of all the other honourable people in Network 21, we apologise for the misconceptions you have been subjected to and for the misinformation you have received.
As part of Network 21 we have never denied our affiliation with Amway - we are proud to acknowledge Amway as our supply company and the others as partner stores. Clearly you have still not understood that it is all about increasing Amway's volume and for your effort you are rewarded (In other words - we all act as 'representatives' for Amway and by building a network we increase our group and Amway's turnover). It is a very simple and effective system when you understand it. Yes - and the person that works the hardest receives most money - not the person at the "top". The products are fantastic and the research and development Amway invests in is second to none.
(Also: We are not employees of Amway as you state - and yes - you can sell your business)
In Network 21 - an information and training organisation we are proud to be affiliated with - we always say "the most expensive advice you will get is free advice from ill informed people". Network 21 is truly a "people helping people" business - however, we are all human and we all make mistakes. When I read your comments, I am astounded that you have so many misconceived ideas and that you get away with them - also influencing others not to investigate for themselves and therefore depriving them of a genuine opportunity. When you lightly make demeaning comments about a person like Angie Somers that has worked very hard to be where she enjoys the fruit of her labour today (although she is still putting in time and effort), I wonder how you would feel if someone just broke down your efforts in things that you value. (Just so that you know: We are not in Angie Somers' line of sponsorship, we just acknowledge her for what she has achieved. She is a clear teacher and we value her input and dedication.)
Maybe you should take the time to research on your own. You are obviously a well-educated person and owe it to yourself to move past a few people that did not have the ability to handle your questions and under-estimated your intellect. You are invited to do worthwhile research on Amway's site, as well as others listed below - most of which we have exclusive distribution rights to.
May you grant others the success they dream about and realise not everyone is blessed with the same talent and perseverance you have.
We wish you success in you chosen field! Thea
<snip addresses and web sites for various Amway product lines, including the ridiculous Magnabloc magnetic products scam>
Schalk & Thea van Heerden
Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 15:21:31 +1000
Your comments on Nexus are somewhat valid - especially all the crappy advertisments - but, Mr. Holy Shit, who are you to complain? Just viewed your website and, oh my gawd!!
Thank you for your comments. It would be useful, however, if I knew what you were talking about. Do you have a particular problem, or is it general?
By the way, anyone who has a flashing image advertising creepy icons in their email is hardly in a position to criticise anybody else's work.
The following image was included in Rod's email:
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 23:53:47 +1000
Subject: (no subject)
If chicken pox is a form of child abuse and your child had chicken pox then you shouldn't even have your own child coming from your perspective. That's crazy. Maybe you should think about what you talk about, especially when you don't know much about the subject your talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't say that chicken pox is a form of child abuse. Perhaps if you read what I wrote you would know what you are talking about
[You can see the context for this email here.]
Here's a conversation going nowhere.
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 12:08:44 +0530
From: shishir k
Looking at the matter posted on your site... i guess.. u must be a person who has built humungous Amway business or must be the founder of Network 21... Right?
I'm sorry, but having morals, ethical standards and a conscience prevents me from being either.
Or, as Richard Nixon said: "I am not a crook"
Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 11:43:21 +0530
From: shishir k
Subject: Re: Amway-N21
I thought you are the person who "walks the talk"... and sharing the info based on your own experience ...! If you stick to .... "morals, ethical standards and a conscience" ... then I guess... you should build this business and then share your wisdom on the business... coz.. then whatever you write.. will be MORAL-Coz, you are talking from your own experience, ETHICAL- Coz... you have done it... and thats why preaching what you have done, and CONSCIENCE - Give me a break -having not built the business... whatever you are writing, should eat you conscience! Great writing.. and enjoy reading your own stuff!! Regards
I thought about asking Shishir whether jumping off bridges or drinking sulphuric acid could be harmful or if each person had to find out for himself, but I felt that the point would not get across.
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 13:26:07 -0700
From: angel roschele
Subject: child abuse
i think you're full of shit. I ran across your site while doing a report on child abuse. I do not mistake chicken pox for child abuse. It is not abuse to let a child go sick with a disease as long as that child isn't suffering. WITH the vaccine or not there is still a change a child COULD contract the pox. And believe it or not a child will still suffer whether or not he had the vaccine or not. So who the fuck are you to say that there parents are proud of their child's sickness! You need to wake up and smell the dog shit cause honey, you're full of beans. Until you know facts....you need to not be running your mouth or a site because all you do is create conflict and drama.
sent to you by
[You can see the context for this email here.]
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 19:20:50 +1000
Thank you for your comments. They have been passed on to everyone in the office so we can all have a good laugh.
Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 09:10:49 +1000
I am a physician and have just read the second of your articles on alternative medical practices. I, too, am a skeptic. Your ignorance of how the body functions and the things you write about is outshone only by your crassness! How could anyone so angry, who speaks of others in such a degrading fashion, be taken seriosly. Degrading someone you don't agree with, I offer, is the mark of the ignorant. Do you live in such a small mind that you actually believe that anyone of intelligence actually thinks you know what you are talking about? Your ravings sound like those of a very angry little boy - - - who isn't very smart!
Grow up! and be blessed!
It would help if you had some specific complaint, as I have written far more than two articles on medical quackery. Please expand on where I am ignorant.
From: "Josh B-C"
Subject: How Sad Peter - from Josh
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 23:03:17 +1000
How sad Peter.
I can only but imagine the internal struggle you must live with for you to express yourself like you do.
I can only hope that it is unconscious for you and that you know nothing of where you are - this for sure would make it easier for you.
Such a deep sadness felt at a fellow human having to resort to the levels you are having to ... for what? to get your attention? So starved it seems for love. To read your twisting and turning and your inability to be authentic reminds me of the hurt child (I once was) doing all he can do to not be really seen - and inside screaming for that very thing - to be seen and loved. Your only out seems to be the same as all those who cannot go to the next level - to naïvely hurt the hearts and futures of those operating with Spirit and love.
As they say ... ONLY HURT PEOPLE ... HURT PEOPLE.
I know, as I think your friend Matt R knows, it is a useless exercise in writing to someone so out of touch with reality. After reading a few of your paragraphs re [XYZ], it didn't take me long to realise the deep hurt you must live with. And although it is rare that people carrying such hurt ever get to an authentic point in their lives, or have the courage, to openly ask for help - Might I suggest you attend an 'MKP Warrior Weekend'.
I too was in a similar place to you - using my mind, my words, my actions to bring others down believing it would somehow elevate the pain inside and lift me - I also believed I was providing a service to the planet by being the arsehole I was being. Luckily, inside I also knew I was full of shit, and due to a couple of real friends who loved me more than I did and encouraged me to step up, I took the next step ... not that you are ready for this ... but who knows ...maybe when it gets really bad you may remember this email from Josh.
BTW - [XYZ] is a 'real' one. But I think your smart enough to realise that - I just think you may not be quite mature enough to take on the responsibility.
If you ever do get the courage, I would love to meet the 'real' man underneath the mask. ... AN AWESOME GUY TO MEET I BET! ;-)
Living with PASSION!
From: "Angela von Tunk"
Subject: re Amway
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 09:27:48 +1000
what a sad sack you must be. I feel sorry for you.
From: "Joel Power"
Subject: Oh Just something
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:10:25 +1000
I just thought i would write to whoever is trying to discredit Hillsong and Pastor Brian and Bobbie Houston, and say this:
NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR OPINION, honestly a jealous word never stands for much......i mean what have you done for the community and this nation or even further the world........mmm....i thought so, i mean anyone can word a good arguement but in all honestly can you be man or women enough to live a life of impact aswell..mmmmm..... thought so........and if you like to talk so much lets try and see you walk the walk and show the world how much you can really do.........mmm.... thought so, all the best.
Do you have a point?
Thank you for your comments. They have been passed on the the appropriate person in the organisation for consideration.
A friend of mine bought into Mannatech about 5 years ago. He has experienced overwhelming success with this company as well he has reaped the benefits of wellness in his life and has witnessed the benefits of Mannatech's products in the lives of others. I'm not writing this email to convince you of anything. After looking at your webpage about the Millenium project I have to lay some truths about the company and glyconutrients out in plain view. It's simple so don't expect me to get to complex about the subject. I don't know if you've ever heard of Harpers Biochemistry, most likely you have because you seem like a knowledeable and intelligent person. I do believe though that you have been misinformed when explaining or trying to make a point on the bodies natural ability to obtain necessary monosaccharides from our every day sources of food. Chapter 56 in Harpers Biochemistry is titled Glycoproteins and is devoted to the recently discovered area of glycoscience. W hen our everyday food is consumed the body immediately begins to break down whatever it is that we consumed and only 2 or 3 of the necessary 8 monsaccharides are found in our consumed diets. These 2 or 3 monosaccharides become useful in the bodies functions ie: metabolic rate, immune functions, etc. This is the problem that we run into those other monosaccharides(or missing links in the human diet) are necessary for proper cellular response and function. I recently have started to take Mannatech's products and I can attest to the fact that indeed they do work. I have never had a severe medical problem or ailment. I've kept my body in good shape and workout consistently. I have noticed that my focus at work and in my personal life is more deffined. I also can tell you that my healing rate for working out is much more responsive. I know you can say that it's a state of mind perhaps, that when I started taking these products that I convinced myself that they were going to be ef fective. I've been practicing a highly intense weight training program for a good part of my life. I can promise that these products, Ambrotose in particular, allows my body to respond better to weight bearing stimuli and produce more energy while exercising. A few other points that I would like to make are the fact that many Olympic athletes use this product in their training and Mannatech is also supported by the NFL's Player Association. Just one more thing to actually reiterate on the subject of the Nobel Prize. I have no intention of correcting you I just would like to set the record straight. Four of the last eight Nobel Prizes for medicine( the medical field does participate in the Nobel Prize) have dealt with the cellular communication process and its importance to our welness. The 1999 Nobel Prize for Medicine was awarded to Dr. Gunter Blobel for his work in this new field of Science-Medicine called Glycobiology. I hope that you will take this information that I hav e brought to the table and make an educated reanalysis of your view on glyconutrients and Mannatech's role in the world today. I am in no way a certified physician or clynical expert but I have studied and taken courses in college on the human body and it?s response to carbohydrates. Glyconutrients takes this approach to carbs for energy a step further and proves the usefullness of the product towards cell communication and the body's immune boost response. Remember there is nothing magical about these sugars, I hope the magical comment was not a shot taken in hopes of distastefulness. I think that anyone with knowledge of how the body works will agree that Mannatech's products help treat the underlying condition of illness at the cellular level and do not just treat and rid of symptomatic illness, such as do many pharmaceutical drugs. I believe that many people in the medical profession and pharmaceutical industry may feel threatened by the science of glycobiology but this very well could be what we've been looking for, that is a product for the body's WELLNESS and not treatment. Hope to hear back from you.
Mannatech User and Associate,
Robert was less than happy with the speed of my response, and wrote to me again.
From: "Goldrick, Robert"
Subject: Where's my response?
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:48:28 -0400
Hello my name is Robert Goldrick. I sent you an email about 1-2 months ago and was wondering if you had a response for my discussion. Just checking in to see if you could come back with anything of substance. I guess not though.
As I have a limited attention span, I usually refuse to read paragraphs containing more than 300 words. This is based on the perfectly reasonable assumption that the Gettysburg Address contains only 278 words and therefore sets a plausible upper limit on the expression of a single thought. Your first self-serving message about the Mannatech fraud contained more than 700 words in a single paragraph and was therefore rejected by my brain filter.
Having said that, I notice upon scanning your message that it contains the old Mannatech lie about Dr Gunter Blobel and his Nobel Prize. He won the 1999 Medicine Prize "for the discovery that proteins have intrinsic signals that govern their transport and localization in the cell", which has nothing to do with Mannatech or "glycobiology", whatever that is. I realise that you are just parroting something told to you by your upline, but facts are facts. At least you didn't give me the absurd nonsense that I received from a previous Mannatech salesperson who made the ludicrous claim that in "1994, Dr Gunter Blobel MD PhD, received the Nobel Peace Prize for his discovery in glycoproteins have with the body's ability to fix itself".
Fans of fraudulent psychic (is there any other kind?) Sylvia Browne seem to like colour and movement.
From: "Kelly Mays"
Subject: U R AN...........
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 01:38:13 -0500
IF..... SHE WERE
BE "HUMAN"!! SHE'D BE SOME PROFIT OR ANGEL FROM HEAVEN
See the rest of this amazing epistle here.
Date sent: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 05:30:08 -0700
From: Roger Barr
Your article "Homeopathy - all the idiocy that fits" is wonderful in its lack of scientific method.
When there is a reproducible natural phenomena that is not understood (like say ... gravity, or like cures like, or the power of homeopathic dilutions) you dont dismiss it, off hand, because some of the attempted explanations for the phenomena dont make sense or fit with your conception of the universe. Instead you investigate the phenomena _thoroughly_ and attempt to find a better theory that fits the facts.
Your grasp of scientific method is as good as the 14th century papacy.
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 02:11:58 +1000
As the mother of two once perfectly healthy kids who happened to love tuna and ate too much of it ten years ago, I consider Dr. Haley a godsend, while you sir, are a biochemical idiot. It took us 5 years to get out from under the medical bills caused by the hypersensitivity to metals like mercury, and my eldest daughter will be a mad hatter requiring medication to survive for the rest of her life. If not for people like Dr. Haley, my doctor and I would never have figured out the mercury problem. My doctor agrees with me and Dr. Haley that my kids should never be injected with thimerosal-containing vaccines, so we have located vaccines without it. Get a clue!
I hope you didn't spend more than one second looking for the thimerosal-free vaccines, because that is how long it takes to locate them. Thimerosal was removed from vaccines years ago.
Get a clue.
Haley is an idiot.
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:24:28 +1000
Subject: Re: Mercury
My doctor had to special order thimerosal-free tetanus vaccine because she only had vaccine with thimerosal on hand. Every year millions of elderly patients are receiving flu shots that still contain thimerosal. Many pediatricians are still using up their stock of old thimerosal-containing vaccines. Thimerosal was removed from most children's vaccines in the US only after heroes like Dr. Haley proved their mercury case to authorities. This was 20 years after Russia and most of Europe had banned its use in vaccines, and 15 years after it was banned for use in animals here in the US. I object to an idiot like you, clearly without any advanced scientific knowledge, calling someone that possibly saved my children's life and health, an idiot. You ARE the IDIOT.
I give up. It is useless arguing with fools.
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 16:36:10 -0700
From: Roger Barr
Subject: come out of an anus and see the light
All you have to do is visit any homeopathic pharmacy
to see the remedies made, exactly as claimed.
From: "curtis tocco"
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 16:05:50 -0700
Hi, i would like to say that you are the most arrogant son of a bitch i have ever incountered. If you would take the time to RESEARCH vaccinations you would see that they contain nero toxins, thats a FACT not some biased bullshit like what you write. FACT ,The levels of nero toxins in vaccines is 100 to 1000's of times the FDA safety level. FACT, if you put nero toxins in a new born baby who hasnt fully developed his brain SHIT HAPPENS. There in it for the money, they dont care if it hurts people. Also mary tocco is the best vaccination researcher out there, if you visit her website you see that she is not bias in anyway, its documented facts. Now maybe you would like to think that your little world is perfect, but it think its time for a reallity check. Go visit marytocco.com and email me back with these "biased" phrases, i would like to see them.
Thank you for your considered criticism. I can't help noticing that you share a surname with the despicable Mary Tocco. You have my greatest sympathy. If I had a burden like that I would change my name and move to another city.
Another thing - I notice that you mention "nero toxins". Are these like the poison that Agrippina used to kill Claudius so that Nero could become Emperor of Rome in 54AD?
From: "curt tocco"
Subject: Re: wow
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 18:21:54 -0700
Ha ha. Your just some fuckin loser that couldn't sell his shit to tabloids so he fuckin made a website and put respectable people's names on it so he could get in the search engine results. Do yourself and all of us a favor, and the next time your on a bridge or a roof and the thought to jump off comes to your mind DO IT.
Thank you for your comments. They have been passed on to the appropriate person in my organisation so that they can be suitably amused.
I notice that you refer to "respectable people" mentioned on my web site. I hope that you don't include disgusting child-haters like Mary Tocco, because nobody could ever call her "respectable". The word could hardly be applied to someone who makes a living lying to parents and encouraging them to place their children in harm's way. I must reiterate my sympathy with you for sharing part of your name with this disgusting person.
Have a nice day. The thousands of children who die today from vaccine-preventable diseases won't have that opportunity.
From: "curt tocco"
Subject: Re: wow
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 19:49:04 -0700
i dont authorize you to put my email anywhere on any website, that was a personal email.
Yes you did. You sent it to me.
Email republication policy
The policy here is to reproduce any critical emails sent to any email address associated with me or this site, and also to reproduce any critical discussion of me or my activities which I see or become aware of on mailing lists, Usenet newsgroups or any other outlets in any form of media. The solution is simple for anyone who does not want to see their words published here - be quiet.
From: "curt tocco"
Subject: Re: wow
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 20:34:55 -0700
Nope i never agreed to any contract saying that the emails will go on the website
Whether you read the disclaimer or not is irrelevant. The site policy is quite clear, and it has not changed in the six years that the site has been on line.
and by doing so you are commiting acts of plagiarism.
Reproduction of a personal communication is not plagiarism.
In the case that you do this i will contact your webhost and have your website deleted.
Have a nice day. Abubakar Tariq Nadama won't be able to do that, because his mother believed anti-vaccination liars like Mary Tocco and now he's dead.
From: "curt tocco"
Subject: Re: wow
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 21:44:57 -0700
lol,Well he probably would have died sooner if he had gotten vaccines.
At that point I had to give up. Anyone who can use the abbreviation "LOL", which means "laughing out loud", to express their feelings about a dead child is so deranged that any attempt at conversation could only be seen as teasing someone who should be in a mental hospital receiving treatment.
You can see more about the demented professional anti-vaccination liar Mary Tocco here.
From: "Jim Storan"
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:58:56 -0400
You must have had a bad experience, and I apologize for that. If you would like to sign up for a program that produces let me know
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:17:02 -0700
From: misty h
Subject: how could u
I THINK YOUR WHOLE LINE OF IT BEING CHILD ABUSE IS ABOUT FAR FECTCHED AS THE PARENTS HAVEING ALLOWED THESE CHILDREN TO CATCH THE CHICKEN POX. WHAT AN IDIOT U ARE. THE INTERNET HAS BECOME A BOOK OF KNOWLEDGE SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO RUN TO THE DOCTOR OVER EVERY LITTLE COUGH OR SPOT. SOME OF US DON'T HAVE MEDICAL INSURANCE AND HAVE TO PICK WHEN TO GO AND WHEN NOT GO, AND THEN PRAY THAT WE PICKED RIGHT. SO GOT TO HELL. I THANK THE PARTENTS WHO HAVE PUT THE PICTURES ON SITE. WHEN I THOUGHT THE MY CHILDREN HAD CONTACTED THE CHICKEN POX THE FIRST PLACE I TURNED TO WAS MY COMPUTER, AND PHONED THE DOCTOR. BETWEEN THE DOCTOR AND THE PICTURES I HAD THE INFORMATION. WHICH MEANS INFORMATION = POWER I KNEW THEN HOW TO HANDLE IT. IF U GET YOUR SICK KICKS FROM LOOKING AT THE PHOTOS FOR MORE THEN WHAT THEY ARE INTENDED FOR THEN STAY OFF THE SITE AND LET THE PARENTS USE IT FOR THE PURPOSE IT WAS INTENDED FOR.... INFORMATION, KNOWLEDGE, AND POWER.
[You can see what the writer was shouting about here.]
Subject: network 21
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:18:57 +1000
Forget the sour grapes. Not everyone succeeds in life & possibly neither did you. Just get over it & cut out the sour grapes stuff.
Do you have a point?
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:54:50 +1000
Subject: BINNY HINN.
THIS IS REFERENCE TO YOUR EMAILS REGARDING BINNY HINN. IT IS A DISGRACE TO ACCUSE BINNY HINN. HE IS RIGHTEOUS MAN AND BLAMELESS. IN HIS CRUSADES HE MENTIONS THAT "ITS IS NOT HE, BUT GOD WHO HEALS". LET'S STOP THIS THING.
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:06:25 -0500
Subject: You are an idiot
You are an idiot.
Thank you for your valuable input. Your comments have been passed on to the appropriate person in the organisation for action.
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:55:28 +0930
I have just had the most rude awakening that people like you that live to put down everything from proven systems to defaming the dead do realy walk the eath. When did you find out that your mother didnt love you, and what help have you taken, or is it that because you are a living legend that no one can help. to go through life in that amount of missary you must in massive emotional pain I hope your med's start working soon.
Do you have something specific to whine about?
I came across your comments on Network 21. I've worked with both Amway and Network 21 for several years, both in Australia and other countries. Most of what I read on your site indicates you truly don't understand how the Amway opportunity works or how Network 21 works with it.
Firstly, I'd like to address the issue of the relationship between N21 and Amway and IBOs. For an IBO, both Network 21 and Amway are suppliers. An IBO is neither an employee of Amway or Network 21. The IBO<->Amway link is obviously stronger than a normal product supplier, it is more like a franchising agreement. Any IBO denying a link with Amway is obviously being dishonest, and in my experience, as stated by your other correspondent, Network 21 does not condone or teach that. We work very closely with Amway.
You state on your site -
"My experience with their distributors is that they turn up for the plan showing with a professional salesman from Network 21 who runs the presentation"
This shows a complete lack of understanding of how we operate. Network 21 has no "professional salesmen". Anyone running the presentation is just a "distributor" like anyone else there, just likely one with more success and experience. It would be very very very unusual to have any Network 21 employee at anything except the very major functions. Certainly not at a plan showing.
You continue ...
"Every Amway "IBO" (or Network 21 salesperson denying the Amway connection) who has ever shown me the plan has told me that it is a simple matter to sign up five people in a month"
I find this difficult to believe. Could you elaborate on how many "Every Amway IBO" is? For most people it is NOT simple to sign up 5 people a month. Network 21 teaches as a *goal* to sponsor TWO people a month. Regarding your mathematical extrapolations, well, they are meaningless. First of all, humans being humans, only about 1 in 5 who register as IBOs ever actually do anything serious towards building the business. And very few of those consistently sponsor even those two people a month. When I first joined I did a spreadsheet factoring in known statistics on plan-showing rates, sponsoring rates, renewal rates etc etc and came up with numerous models where "saturation" as you define it never occurs.
Later on I realised this wasn't even a valid exercise, as our goal isn't to sponsor people. Our goal is to build sales volume, and sponsoring others is simply a strategy to do that. These strategies change and modify over time. Sometimes it's more effective to focus on individual IBOs generating more volume through retailing, other times it's more effective to sponsor more people who do less volume. It's a business, and as such strategies need to change over time.
Some further comments on your page -
*************************** "I must say that while I have long observed immorality among big pins and pyramid operators"
I'd appreciate it if you could elucidate upon this as it relates to Network 21? There are undoubtedly many negative Amway-related stories on the internet, but in my research they seem to be almost exclusively related to one particular organisation that works with Amway. Your page is the closest thing I've found reporting any problems with Network 21's operations. Some more information to back up your claims would be appreciated.
*************************** "There is also the obvious question of why someone would work for an organisation like Network 21 and not be an "IBO"
And there is an obvious answer. Not everybody wants to be an IBO. It's an opportunity for anyone, not everyone. Having said that, I am aware of people who have resigned from Amway and/or Network 21 in order to become IBOs. One of them is my upline.
*************************** "The taxation authorities recognise my business as a business and allow me to claim business expenses as deductions, but they have explicitly stated that MLM activities are not businesses."
This is completely false. In fact the Australian Tax Office has fairly explicit guidelines on this regarding Amway. You can read them at http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/content.asp?doc=/content/Amway.htm&pag e=1#H1
*************************** "I am not expected to find and recruit competitors for my business"
This is further evidence of your misunderstanding. If you were to open up your hypothetical computer store, and business went so well that you could open up further stores, perhaps through selling franchises, would that be "finding and recruiting competitors"? Of course not. You would be expanding your wholesale business. Same applies for Amway. Any sales you do directly are retail sales. Any sales to people you "recruit" are wholesale sales. Anyone I recruit or they recruit and so on is not a competitor, they are a *part* of my business.
*************************** "At what level in the hierarchy can you sell your downline to someone else? If you can't sell it, you do not own it"
This is theoretically possible at any level, but in practice it only occurs at levels above Platinum (in excess of around A$23,000 in turnover each month). And when I say "in practise" I mean it - this has happened numerous times.
*************************** "They never tell you the truth - that it costs you money to be in their business"
This is completely false. In what we call an "options" or "alternatives" meeting, where we sit down 1 on 1 with a prospect, we explictly go through the costs of starting and running this type of business. This can't be done in an "open" meeting as the costs will very considerably depending upon what the individual person wants to achieve out of their business and in what time frame.
*************************** "Why are they still working? Why doesn't Kerry Packer sell his magazines and television stations and join Network 21?"
Why would he? This is an opportunity, not the only opportunity. Don't be ridiculous. As for "why are they still working?" - perhaps because we have things we still want to achieve. If you enjoy it, why not keep on doing it? You have to do something with your life. The key is that people successful in this type of business have the choice.
*************************** "If she is a Double Diamond then she is a very well-paid crook. Ask her to call me and convince me to join Network 21. Of course, I would embarrass her by asking to see her house and her tax records."
Why don't you giver her a call and do just that? She's listed in the Whitepages - do a search for Amway and Drummoyne, NSW on www.whitepages.com.au.
Just a friendly word of caution. In my experience successful N21 people don't waste their time on sites like this, but I believe you just libeled her. Australian law isn't quite as friendly as some other countries when it comes to "free speech".
*************************** "Network 21 is not Amway officially, but is an organisation set up to work with Amway. If you ask them about Amway they deny any connection. They lie. The only products they sell are from the Amway catalogue."
This is incorrect. First of all we do not deny any connection. Anyone doing that is NOT operating according to what N21 teaches. Secondly, N21 does not sell *any* Amway products. Network 21 is a for-profit company that sells books, tapes, cds, and other business aids, and promotes and sells tickets to seminars and other events.
If you're talking about N21 affiliated IBOs, they promote Amway products and anything else they care to promote. As with virtually any agent/franchising type arrangement, IBOs are not supposed to promote competitive products, but that's not an unusual arrangement in the business world. I own a number of businesses apart from my Amway businesses and I "sell" products from all of them.
*************************** "<snip addresses and web sites for various Amway product lines, including the ridiculous Magnabloc magnetic products scam>"
Have you actually done any research into Magnabloc? I spent many years as a research scientist at a major university medical faculty. I have post-grad qualifications in health sciences and am currently considering pursuing my interests in the field with a PHD. I was honestly very skeptical when this product range came out. So I did the research. And I discovered that the developers of Magnabloc were at Vanderbilt University, one of the US's top medical universities. Furthermore they had a number of published peer-reviewed papers on magnetic pain therapy, including double-blind placebo studies and even in-vitro studies investigating proposed mechanisms. No doubt there are many magnetic therapy products on the market that are a complete scam, but these would not appear to be one of them.
I look forward to your response and seeing my comments posted on your site.
As everything in this rant has been answered elsewhere, I saw no need to reply. Also, anyone writing anonymously from a domain called "mlmfacts.net" would almost certainly be impervious to facts or logic.
From: "Silvia Veronica"
Subject: Amway and Network 21!!!!!!
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:16:06 +1100
This is really funny.........or should I say your comments sound really funny?
You sound like you know what you are talking about but in fact.........to be honest there are lots of holes in your arguments !!!!! Yes anyone is entitled for their own opinion but at least do some research before you post it on the net......for godsake it does reflect on your credibility!!! I am not sure if you have any..............just read below why I say that .
First of all your comment about Amway the pyramid scheme, just for your information, pyramid scheme is banned in Australia and Amway is registered in ATO [incase if you don't know and haven't done your research, it's Australian Taxation Office] Well..... would Amway be accepted by the registration board if their scheme is deemed to be illegal?
Second, your comment that Network 21 people deny any affiliation with Amway, which network 21 people have you spoken to? Coz as Thea van Herdeen wrote in the email[I don't know her], we network 21 people are proud to be affiliated with the Amway corporation, for the best product that they present in the market. If you wanna know if they pay? Yes they pay.......they do send the check and report with full detail and calculation of what they are paying me for.
I trully think that the one who does not have a clue of what ShiSir said in the email is noone but YOU. It is true that unless you have experience the system yourself and proof us that it's a scam, yes you have been unethical and I am not sure either if you have moral standard or conscience as you claim.......
In Network 21 we are all IBO [Independent Business Owner], although all IBO follow the same system, the way each IBO conduct their business may differed. I do not say that network 21 member are all fantastic, surely that there may be some of us who do not do it properly or perhaps whoever it was that you met couldn't relate to you. Get over it coz this happens in every industry too. There are some that do it well and some that don't. If that is the case then stop ridiculing the system coz the system is genuine and fantastic !!!!
For your information, the team where I'm at, we never promise people anything. We never say that it is an easy and quick way of making money, not in the seminar and certainly not when we do personal meeting either. But we all know if we put effort surely we'll get the result and the team always help us along the way !!!!!!!!!
From: "Gavin Mace"
Subject: MLM - Network 21
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 20:36:16 +1100
I am writing to you to discuss the opinions expressed on your website concerning Network 21 and your opinions in general. After seeing your website I think that you tend to contradict yourself quite regularly by making a website that will tell everyone about all the bad things in the world and acting as though you are the answer to all of their problems. In doing this, you are creating another problem, I think you could possibly even include yourself in The Millenium Project. You are robbing people of the opportunity to make a decision themselves and simply filling their heads with negative rubbish.
You information is very biased and seems to be an attempt to degrade others who have different opinions while trying to feel good about yourself by putting others done. If you are talking about influences on young people in the case of that email from the foreign student, then you may remember a kindergarten rule "No Putdowns". I am not questioning you as a person, nor am I putting you down in regard to your employment, I solely do not agree with your opinions and don't believe you are giving an accurate account to viewers of this website. Infact, one of my best friends is very much the same as you in his way of thinking, it does not offend me.
I think it is wrong that you speak of people involved in Network 21 or Amway like they are the scum of the universe and their morals and ethics are far inferior to those of yourself. You say that people who try and recruit when building a Network 21 business are only interested in the money side of things and therefore are trying to scam you. If you looked at both sides of the coin, you would see that this is how all business operates, if it doesn't then the business owner is quite stupid infact. If you have a boss, then he will employ you because he thinks that you will increase his profits by doing a certain job for him, if you don't achieve this for the boss, he will fire you. The aim of every business is to increase their profits, by doing so other people will always make money, but not as much as their boss (or person above them).
You also spoke of people getting discounts on overpriced products so they are lead to believe they get it cheap at wholesale. Just a quick bit of background on myself, I am currently in the process of finishing school and weighing up whether to join Network 21 or get a job at a retail store next year. This retail store I bought an accessory from about two years ago now for about $210. I later found out that the wholesale price that the business had purchased this for was $51. Most Network 21 products are perhaps a tad expensive yes. The difference between wholesale and retail price for Amway is perhaps about 20% roughly on average, maybe abit less. This store charged me more than 400% ontop of what the item was at wholesale. The guy who owns the store is a great bloke, I am not questioning that, we are good friends. However, every time I go into the store to buy something, he will drop whatever he is doing, tell his crappy sales staff to go away and he will talk talk talk to me all day... while i'm in his store. No he doesn't talk to me outside of the store, nor does he really care about what im doing. He wants to sell me something and make a profit. If he was to hire me to work in his store, it would be to make a profit from me increasing his sales a certain amount. If I was not any good at it, he would fire me and rightly so. If I was to work extra hard for him and increase his profits, then I might get a pay rise... and rightly so. This is the way that business works. You say that people at the top of the pyramid are the ones that make all the money. This is the same for all other businesses, I saw on Today Tonight a short time ago (I think you may want to marry that presenter, her narrow minded opinions are similar to those of yourself) that all major business board members or whatever they were made so many millions each year and were supposed to be con artists. I take my hat off to these people, they are very good.
I think it is also good from the people at Network 21 that they generally do focus most of their attention on how much money they are going to make. I find generally that most people do want to help others, however they cannot do so without first helping themselves (goes without saying really). My question is that is it more immoral to become, for example, a doctor, if your life long dream is to help others and be a nice person. Yes, they do help others in a health sense, but then they cause them a whole lot of stress by hiring a receptionist to post them out a big medical bill. In my opinion, this is an even playing field. The sick patient is helping the doctor as much as the doctor is helping the sick patient. They are there to make money from sick people! If I was to be so narrow minded you could mislead people to believe that doctors are scum, however, they are not. However, does a doctor give you a full money back guarentee if you don't achieve alot from a visit? NO WAY! I have been screwed over many times from doctors giving me false information and then costing me lots of money on various other tests and medicines etc... However, in general I think that doctors are very knowledgable and do try their best to make things better.
I do not think that Amway products can really be attacked as many of them are good quality. I have seen many doctors recommend the healthy products which they provide. However at the same time, they don't neglect the value of other parts to being healthy such as eat fruit and vegetables. This is doing what is right for the customer.
I think that those involved in Network 21 should not be generalised into your incorrect category of them all being scum and having no morals or ethics. They are infact very different to this and I think it is very inappropriate for you to say such things. Many people in Network 21 use this business because it is an easy source of money. You cannot blame people for not wanting to make their work a large part of their life. These people see that they don't want to retire poor at the age of 65 and have done nothing they enjoy with their life. As is the saying, 'The best things in life are free'.... however, in order for this to happen, we do need to take care of the bills. Not saying that all people in Network 21 are like this, they are not, a large portion however simply want to be able to forget about their own incomes and careers so they can focus on more important things. Family, children, enjoying life, travelling and helping others are the main goals that I see when listening to the majority of people in the business. I don't think it is appropriate to dislike people for trying to fulfill their dreams.
I am sure you have heard all of this before from people talking about how they hate schools for not teaching kids about money, or they hate universities for telling kids that they need to go there. The schools promote uni and then that cycle goes over and over, then at the end of uni you are smart in your chosen area, but unless you have some financial backing, your in debt. Does 15 years of school and 4 years of uni earn you money? HELL NO! they do claim to however, in most of the uni advertising I have seen (yes I am very capable of doing university, I do not want to though as I don't consider it to be enjoyable. All of my friends agree, but for some reason, usually parental pressure, many are going either next year or the year after. I don't understand why people would do things they don't enjoy)
When I leave school, I will most likely never use any of my $100,000+ education for career purposes. I will however use my tiny little $10,000 (it's not really that big, but if we go by your estimation, I will even give you a few thousand dollars lee-way) education from N21 which teaches me how to make money. All people want money, lets be honest, very few care about what they do with their job. It is what we do outside of our job, things with our family and lives that I consider to be most important (really it's a no-brainer)
I think this email is now well and truly long enough. I would very much like this letter to be posted on your website and I would like to hear a response from you so that you can teach me more (you seem to be very knowledgable) about why your beliefs are so and also so we can continue to discuss. I am interested in your opinion and will look forward to hearing it.
There must be a script out there somewhere.
Subject: becareful of what comes out of your mouth
Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 00:59:13 +0000
l am not hear comment on whether or not Pastor benny is a man of God or not. but let you know that our lORD GOD heals. when you fall in his presence that is when you realize there is a lot of power in his presence. l am not surprised by today coments on man of God for even himself the Lord Jesus christ was subject to such. let us leave judgement to God or else we run the risk on touching the anoited of God. so far in all l have seen and had Beny hinn has acknowldged that healing is from the lord. those who miss it is because they are after a sign as the bible says as oppossed to the Lord, for sure they never get the sign.may the lord forgive us.
From: "Gerry Frederics"
Subject: The Passion of Frederick Töben
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:09:36 -0300
Ewiger Jude! Letīs see now, Dr. Töbenīs īopinionsīare
buffonery, ludicrous, non-sense blah-blah, blah, blah. You assault
his integrity without ever as much as proposing ONE argument
against any of his historically correct FACTS. Why? Because
you are kike, a bottom feeder who masquerades as a proponent
of free speech. Donīt give us revisionists words, give us facts.
SHOW us where we are wrong. PROVE your insane claims. PROVE
your race is NOT dishonest, criminal and mentally unstable.
PROVE 3000 years of documented history are wrong. PROVE Töben
is spreading nonsense, prove it kike. As Professor (ret.) Faurisson
said; īDonīt give me words, but show me a drawing of an actual
working gas chamber.ī ĻRatbagsĻ? What a fitting name. A bag
of rats, hell thatīs about right, Ewiger Jude. www.germancross.com,